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  #1  
Old 01/31/2010, 9:06 PM
Jericho Male Jericho is offline
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Question How do you feel about Britney Spears’ hugely successful comeback last year?

Hey guys- Ten years ago, she was nothing more than a teen idol with very little talent. She, along with ‘NSYNC and the Backstreet Boys, dominated the pop music charts in the late 90’s and early 2000’s. Everyone feverishly hated on her, and savagely poked fun at her (remember Nicole Sullivan’s mockery of her back in Season 5?). And everyone theorized that she would disappear like all manufactured, teen-pop acts.

Well- She didn’t.



Last year was a banner year for ‘The Princess of Pop’. She went on an incredibly successful world tour that was critically acclaimed and highly attended. It was probably her biggest tour to date. Hell, even my two 35-year-old co-workers went to see her live at the AAC in Toronto.

Britney seems to have won and/or re-gained the respect from the mass audience. Everyone last year was like: “Britney’s back and she’s straightened herself out”.

On top of that- She still lip-syncs.

How do you feel about Britney’s renewed popularity?
Has your view of Britney changed in the wake of the revitalization of her music career?
Have you developed deep inside you a newfound R-E-S-P-E-C-T for Britney?

When you think of Britney’s recent success story- Would you say “Good for her”? Why or why not?



By the way- Let’s avoid such clichéd assertions like “The music industry sucks”. I’m trying to find some fresher arguments regarding Britney’s mark on popular music.

Thanks guys.

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Old 02/03/2010, 12:39 PM
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How do you feel about Britney’s renewed popularity?
Indifferent. I didn't know she got popular again. I knew for a while she went batshit and then she got it together a bit and lost weight but I was under the impression that the rest of the country moved on.


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Has your view of Britney changed in the wake of the revitalization of her music career?
I looked her up on wikipedia and assume this new success is in regards to her album Circus. I played some of it on wikipedia and it doesn't sound like she's developed at all so no. The tracks still sound like really uninspired, half-hearted FL Studio loops and her voice still sounds really affected. In my opinion she doesn't have the voice to make "good" pop music and she doesn't have the studio or musical ability to make good dance music. I have to assume she's selling tickets because she puts on a good show visually, because people go expecting a train wreck or because America really cares about this relic of bad music turning her life around. I don't get it.

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Have you developed deep inside you a newfound R-E-S-P-E-C-T for Britney?
I'm not sure why someone selling a lot of concert tickets would warrant any additional respect from anyone. I guess I'd say I respect her more when she's working for a living than when she's in the news for driving around with her baby not wearing a seatbelt.

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When you think of Britney’s recent success story- Would you say “Good for her”? Why or why not?
Good for her, she figured out how to squeeze a few more millions out of the rubes who will pay that much money to see someone lip-sync bad pop music. I don't get how it works but she's making money off of her wares so she must be doing something right.

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Old 02/03/2010, 2:01 PM
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I feel the same way as Nemisis. Her songs are just bad now. They all seem to be sex references. 3 is just a whole song about threesomes.

As for the successful tour, you say "She went on an incredibly successful world tour that was critically acclaimed and highly attended". Does that include the Austrailian show that everyone walked out on because of her horrible lip syching, or the other preformances in which she was panned for not only lip syching, but doing a terrible job at it? Also, I doubt it was her best tour to date. I know I heard of terrible reviews here in Vancouver when she played.

In total, no I don't think she's good, or better than she use to be. Her voice is now so fake, and its on the way down career wise for her. Maybe she'll be able to find some, as Nemisis called it rubes, who are willing to pay for her crappy singing, but outside of that, she's done.

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Old 02/05/2010, 8:29 PM
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I figured as much.

Just one other thing:

Would you personally condemn and show disrespect to any of her fans for liking her music and for supporting her throughout the years? Why or why not?

Before you respond, here's what I think:

My friend from high school made fun of me for listening to Avril Lavigne, and I in turn made fun of him for listening to John Mayer. So there.



ALSO: Her tour sold out reasonably well- she even extended it in North America last fall.

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Old 02/05/2010, 8:33 PM
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Old 02/06/2010, 12:34 AM
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Would you personally condemn and show disrespect to any of her fans for liking her music and for supporting her throughout the years? Why or why not?
The fact is, if you listen to Britney, you shouldn't be shocked that people are going to make fun of you. We all have our musical guilty pleasures but if you're buying all of her albums and going to her concerts, you're a genuine fan. I don't really care what people decide to listen to but listening to Britney is one of those things that makes me think "I probably have absolutely nothing in common with this person." 9/10 times I'll bet I'm right on this.


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My friend from high school made fun of me for listening to Avril Lavigne, and I in turn made fun of him for listening to John Mayer. So there.
While both are a bit embarrassing, listening to Avril is wayyy more deserving of ridicule than John Mayer. So there

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ALSO: Her tour sold out reasonably well- she even extended it in North America last fall.
I have never understood how this is an argument to the quality of something. I'll have people who will argue that shows and movies are great because lots of people see them. In fact, it memory serves me, tvman might be one of those people who is constantly worried about ratings as a determinant of quality.

American Idol gets incredibly high ratings and it's garbage. The highest grossing films (especially during the summer) are almost always awful. This just demonstrates an immutable fact of nature that if you just go by the numbers, most people have shitty taste.

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Old 02/06/2010, 2:21 AM
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I have never understood how this is an argument to the quality of something. I'll have people who will argue that shows and movies are great because lots of people see them. In fact, it memory serves me, tvman might be one of those people who is constantly worried about ratings as a determinant of quality.

American Idol gets incredibly high ratings and it's garbage. The highest grossing films (especially during the summer) are almost always awful. This just demonstrates an immutable fact of nature that if you just go by the numbers, most people have shitty taste.
Actually I think that was MADfan that said that. Actually most of the shows I watch right now have low ratings, or are on the verge of cancellation. To prove it, some of my favourite shows right now include the new Scrubs, Better Off Ted, and MADtv (it's coming back I tell you! But even on the remote chance it doesn't, it was a show that got low ratings but was brilliant).

I totally agree with you against the argument that people make things great. It's like if a team goes without a win all season, but sold out most of their games. Just because they sold out all their games, that makes them a great team? No, they didn't win a game all season, and as for Britney, if a lot of people go to your concerts that does not mean it's good. I believe that if someone has any kind of problem that causes them not to show up, or causes the audience to walk out or show notable displeasure multiple time, that means that it's probably not that good.

To solidify the argument that quantity doesn't make quality, unless Avatar's overall gross is totaled into last year when it was released, the highest grossing film last year was Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen. Casein point.

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Old 02/06/2010, 12:06 PM
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I am a huge britney stan. The reason why I am is the exact reason Nemesis first mentioned, because she turned into a huge train wreck paparazzi fucking sex crazed party animal. The music that came out of that generation is undoubtedly the best pop of the last decade. (At least if you agree with Time or rolling stones recap of the last decade).
I guess it has to do with the image that she put out there before she became a trainwreck, oh and trust me, i know shes still a huge mess today (see recent grammy appearance). She was the image of pop, sexy pop of the early 2000s and she was just a cool chick. Now that we know she's batshit crazy makes me love her even more.
I could just go on, but if you really wanna be impressed by her (because her most recent album Circus was terrible) I'd recommend checking out more of the blackout era. And many of remixes done by her producers. They're topping the club charts at least. I can only hope her new album this year is gonna be hALF as sexy as that shit.
BRITNEY 2010

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Old 02/06/2010, 12:49 PM
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I have to admit that I'm a Britney fan. But I'm the kind of person who likes to listen to dancey and catchy kind of music because I find it puts me in a good mood. And I'm a fan of most female pop acts like Madonna, Lady Gaga etc.
There's no doubt Briteny still has a huge impact on the music industry. I have respect for her as a musician for the success she's been able to achieve. However I have zero respect for Britney as a person.

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Old 02/06/2010, 1:27 PM
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I have to admit that I'm a Britney fan. But I'm the kind of person who likes to listen to dancey and catchy kind of music because I find it puts me in a good mood. And I'm a fan of most female pop acts like Madonna, Lady Gaga etc.
There's no doubt Briteny still has a huge impact on the music industry. I have respect for her as a musician for the success she's been able to achieve. However I have zero respect for Britney as a person.
That last sentence is kind of contradictory isn't it?

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Old 02/07/2010, 11:30 AM
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Not really, there's a difference between a person (what they do in their everyday lives) and their art (the music they produce).

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Old 02/21/2010, 3:24 PM
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The fact is, if you listen to Britney, you shouldn't be shocked that people are going to make fun of you. We all have our musical guilty pleasures but if you're buying all of her albums and going to her concerts, you're a genuine fan. I don't really care what people decide to listen to but listening to Britney is one of those things that makes me think "I probably have absolutely nothing in common with this person." 9/10 times I'll bet I'm right on this.

Listening to Avril is wayyy more deserving of ridicule than John Mayer. So there.
Can't people just have an opinion without being crucified for it? How does paying to see Britney, Avril, or John Mayer make their fans deserving of shame?

I just don't understand why people like you (and my co-worker) need to be a complete asshole when it comes to other people's tastes in entertainment.

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Old 02/21/2010, 3:30 PM
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Cry me a river. Music is a terribly divisive subject and most people will tend to break someone's balls if they listen to cheesy music or do something else that they find weird. You should act like a man and either return the ridicule to your coworker (or me) or take it and like whatever pop music you want to like. I'm certainly not going to stop having/expressing my opinion on music I think is shitty because someone might get butthurt about it.

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Old 02/21/2010, 8:03 PM
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Can't people just have an opinion without being crucified for it? How does paying to see Britney, Avril, or John Mayer make their fans deserving of shame?

I just don't understand why people like you (and my co-worker) need to be a complete asshole when it comes to other people's tastes in entertainment.
And why do people like you have to belittle other peoples arguments when they don't agree with your point of view? Look everyone, were all making observations!

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Old 02/21/2010, 11:44 PM
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Cry me a river. Music is a terribly divisive subject and most people will tend to break someone's balls if they listen to cheesy music or do something else that they find weird. You should act like a man and either return the ridicule to your coworker (or me) or take it and like whatever pop music you want to like. I'm certainly not going to stop having/expressing my opinion on music I think is shitty because someone might get butthurt about it.
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And why do people like you have to belittle other peoples arguments when they don't agree with your point of view? Look everyone, were all making observations!
Nem- I was indeed returning the ridicule to my co-worker. Hence, my Avril/Mayer comment. I was telling my co-worker that my opinion is just as equally valid as his. For every put-down of Avril/whoever that he throws at me, I could easily hit him back with one of John Mayer/whoever. It's my way of saying "Well, you're not so special either".

Your knock on my liking Avril was just unnecessary. And I'm taking it as a personal attack. You don't know me or any of different types of music that I listen to.

Anyway, I find your generalizations regarding "breaking someone's balls" to be horribly unfounded. Like I said, I have a few 35-year-old friends who are big Britney fans, several who are adult-age Avril fans, and some who are even Justin Timberlake fans. Absolutely none of them have been made fun of by others due to their musical tastes. Why? Because these people I know are adult-ish and mature enough to respect others' likes and dislikes. They know that people will like what they like, and should be ultimately left alone.

The reason I asked "Would you condemn Britney's fans?" is to see if someone would think on the same level as my aforementioned co-worker. Based on my experiences in the adult working world, people are cool with others' musical tastes, no matter what they are. The only exception is my aforementioned co-worker, who wants to be an immature, condescending douchebag.

My point is that it is your right to say "So-and-so sucks as an artist," and then give a reason for not liking that artist. But if you're going to belittle someone for enjoying that artist's music, then it becomes a personal jab. At that point, it's not about commenting on music anymore- it becomes a sidebar on the individual person who happens to like that kind of music.

We all should express our opinions and agree to disagree. However, I don't see a correlation between offering a differing opinion on an artist's music and criticizing that artist's fans.

Yes, people should "be a man" (i.e. "be mature") when it comes to differences in opinion. But showing a condescending attitude about one's personal tastes doesn't make you any more mature.

Let me repeat- There's a difference between voicing an argument on music and condemning the fans who like that particular music.

By the way Nem- Didn't you tell me at one time that you don't have a problem with people who happen to like the artists you dislike (whether it be U2, Justin Timberlake, or Christina Aguilera)? Do I sense a contradiction here?

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Old 02/22/2010, 12:31 AM
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Your knock on my liking Avril was just unnecessary. And I'm taking it as a personal attack. You don't know me or any of different types of music that I listen to.
But I know you do like Avril and that you're an adult and I find that a little funny, that's all. I'm not trying harassing you in person about it, I'm not trying to string you up from a tree so perhaps you should chill out and not blow a jab at your musical interests so far out of proportion.

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Anyway, I find your generalizations regarding "breaking someone's balls" to be horribly unfounded. Like I said, I have a few 35-year-old friends who are big Britney fans, several who are adult-age Avril fans, and some who are even Justin Timberlake fans. Absolutely none of them have been made fun of by others due to their musical tastes. Why? Because these people I know are adult-ish and mature enough to respect others' likes and dislikes. They know that people will like what they like, and should be ultimately left alone.
I believe you're mistaking an internet argument for real life and that's something you should never do. If I had a friend who was 35 and into Avril or Britney in a big way I'd probably tease them about it every once in a while. Don't turn it into a maturity contest. That's just pathetic. Obviously in a work environment I wouldn't bully anyone about it or take it beyond gentle ribbing. If you can't handle that and turn it into "THAT HURTS MY FEELINGS, YOU'RE SO IMMATURE," then you're probably one of those people who can't take jokes. I'm never going to consider your Avril Lavigne music collection to be serious business no matter how much you hemm and haw about it. Ever.

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Yes, people should "be a man" (i.e. "be mature") when it comes to differences in opinion. But showing a condescending attitude about one's personal tastes doesn't make you any more mature.
Telling you to be a man wasn't telling you to necessarily be mature, it meant to take your lumps and dish them back out or at the very least, do anything but whine about being picked on. Realizing that it's bickering about music and that someone is just teasing you for liking something you like is being a man. Whining and calling everyone who is mean to you immature isn't.

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By the way Nem- Didn't you tell me at one time that you don't have a problem with people who happen to like the artists you dislike (whether it be U2, Justin Timberlake, or Christina Aguilera)? Do I sense a contradiction here?
You don't sense a contradiction. When it comes down to it, I don't lose sleep or really give a damn what people want to listen to. Everyone is free to listen to whatever they want and I am in no way impugning someone's right to listen to whatever music they want to listen to. I'm also a human being and I tend to comment on things, so I see nothing wrong with some ball busting when it comes to music because I think people should be able to handle it. You will not see me invest any significant amount of time in that because at the end of the day I don't give a shit what's on your ipod. I also don't care if you make fun of what I listen to. I just get extremely irritated when people think they have a right to walk around in this world and never get their precious feelings offended by anyone else.

So was that the whole point of this thread? To troll everyone with Avril Lavigne and Britney Spears until someone bit so you could unload on them what you didn't/couldn't unload on your coworker?

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Old 02/22/2010, 12:37 AM
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So was that the whole point of this thread? To troll everyone with Avril Lavigne and Britney Spears until someone bit so you could unload on them what you didn't/couldn't unload on your coworker?
Then again Nemisis, isn't that just what the internet is for?

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Old 03/16/2010, 9:21 PM
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Okay- Nem. I've given it some thought, I've decided to put this discussion to rest for good. Evidently, starting this thread was HUGE mistake. This discussion was supposed to be about people liking Britney again. I didn't expect to be ambushed for one simple statement. I've broached this topic about the Britney/Avril fandom with various internet communities, and I've never gotten comments like "rubes" or "so-and-so deserves ridicule". This forum, I guess, consists of bunch of characters that enjoy throwing shit around.

Nem- I'm "sorry" that my musical tastes aren't up to your standards (whatever those are). I'll enjoy what I like and you'll enjoy what you like. But my liking of Avril (which is on a casual level, I might add) had absolutely nothing to do with the topic of Britney's return. I was merely pointing out to my brash co-worker that our opinions on music are vastly debatable. Your suggestion that I deserve ridicule was just incredibly random and out of place. I rolled my eyes when it read your statement, because this topic is about Britney- not Avril, John Mayer or whatever.

If you want to rib me about my tastes in entertainment, that's fine. I have no problem with people ribbing me about what I like. While most of the people in my life keep quiet about my musical tastes, there are a few people that have picked on me about my liking of Avril/U2 many, many times. I would usually laugh along with them, or just shrug it off. I can take a joke- I can take a difference of opinion.

However, your comment towards me seemed more like an all-out flaming. It didn't even sound like an opinion. Maybe you were trying to be humorous. Maybe you were trying to be sarcastic. But you are not a funny person. Yes, I would have taken your comment as a form of ribbing or difference in opinion. The issue is that you are not funny. Instead, based on your tone, you came across as being condescending and vindictive.

And please don't call me whiny or pathetic. I'm speaking from the heart. Like I just said, I've dealt with my feelings being gently hurt by my peers many times, and I've never lost my smile. However, as I just pointed out, your comment was just outrageous and not at all funny. It was more along the lines of being arrogant and spiteful. So I took it upon myself to call you out for it- which I did to my aforementioned co-worker.

My take on maturity was pathetic? I don't think so. Seriously- Disagreement among adults over musical tastes is just trivial. Only high school kids would make a big bah-joo about whose tastes are shittier than others. Adults have more important things to be concerned with. So if you're going to say "I don't want to associate myself with so-and-so because he/she likes Britney", I would be like "You're going single someone out because of something as insignificant as THAT? Come on".

Anyway, I started this thread to find out if there are people out there that would seriously show utter disrespect and disdain towards people who happen to enjoy commercial pop music. More often than not, as I've witnessed, people would leave each other alone and say "To each his own". Of course, people would naturally express their opinions, and say "Britney sucks" and such. And then there's the comes-with-the-territory ribbing, with people saying shit like "How many Avril concerts have you been to- a dozen?"

However, I've discovered that there are people like my aforementioned co-worker (and I guess you, Nem) who intentionally give people an attitude about intangibles like musical tastes. My co-worker, for example, said to me "I can't understand why the fuck you listen to Avril", and refused to speak to me ever again. That exchange is shades of your telling me that Britney/Avril fans deserve to be dissed, and that you want to have nothing to do with those types of music fans. If you don't like Britney or Avril and decide to express that opinion- that's fine by me. If you want to rib me by saying "Why don't you go marry Avril if you like her shit so much"- go right ahead. But if you're going to have prejudice against someone because of something as trivial as personal tastes, then that's not cool. And I'll probably tell you that you're not so special either.

There's a line between ribbing someone and disrespecting them.

Nem- Based on our past interactions, you're just not an easy person to like. You enjoy stirring the pot, and I don't get along with people who exhibit that type of attitude. By saying that people deserve to have their feelings hurt and shouldn't complain about others being mean to them, you have the same mentality as the everyday school bully. Joking with others is natural- Spitting on them (figuratively) is an asshole-y thing to do.

Thought I'd finally get all of that off my chest. Hope that clears the air.

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Old 03/16/2010, 9:45 PM
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I'll leave the countering to you Nem.

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Old 03/16/2010, 11:31 PM
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Okay- Nem. I've given it some thought, I've decided to put this discussion to rest for good. Evidently, starting this thread was HUGE mistake.
If your goal was to have everyone pat you on the head and say your coworker is a meany and that we all love Britney and should have a sleepover where we can listen to her music and braid eachother's hair, then yes, it was a mistake. However, if your real intention, as I expected, was to give you an outlet to dump all your anger on someone on the internet because you can't do so to someone you work with, then I think you've gotten what you've come here for. Congratulations.

Your original post reads like a fluff piece in an entertainment magazine. "Hey, Britney spears is doing really successful, isn't she wonderful? Do you respect her/care at all about her any more than you used to?"

You'll note that my first post was all about my indifference for her and her success. I have never found myself wondering or worrying how well or poorly Britney Spears is doing at selling out concerts. You then brought up the question as to whether or not we would condemn or disrespect somebody who likes her music. What I said was that I find that I don't have much in common with Britney Spears superfans and that they should not act surprised or indignant when somebody makes fun of them for it because it must happen all the time.

I'd like to remind you that you were the first one to not only bring up the idea of comparing musical tastes as if they were objective, but you tacitly endorsed it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
My friend from high school made fun of me for listening to Avril Lavigne, and I in turn made fun of him for listening to John Mayer. So there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
I just don't understand why people like you (and my co-worker) need to be a complete asshole when it comes to other people's tastes in entertainment.
So you somehow escalated "you shouldn't be shocked that people are going to make fun of you" into "deserving of shame," as if I was implying that listening to Avril Lavigne is tantamount to incest or back-alley abortions. Let me reiterate: I do not care if you like Avril or Britney. Have a fucking ball at their concerts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
Your suggestion that I deserve ridicule was just incredibly random and out of place.
Strawman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
But you are not a funny person. Yes, I would have taken your comment as a form of ribbing or difference in opinion. The issue is that you are not funny.
Ad Hominem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
Only high school kids would make a big bah-joo about whose tastes are shittier than others.
Strawman. Once again you took my comment about how you shouldn't be surprised if someone makes fun of you and imply that I make it my life's mission to compare musical tastes to you or anyone else, thus making a big "bah-joo", whatever the hell that is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
My co-worker, for example, said to me "I can't understand why the fuck you listen to Avril", and refused to speak to me ever again. That exchange is shades of your telling me that Britney/Avril fans deserve to be dissed, and that you want to have nothing to do with those types of music fans.
False analogy. Your coworker cutting off all communication with you and cursing is not analogous to me saying that 9 times out of 10 I don't have anything in common with Britney spears superfans. Did I say I don't want to have anything to do with all fans of the genre? Please point out where I said that because I don't seem to see it anywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
By saying that people deserve to have their feelings hurt and shouldn't complain about others being mean to them, you have the same mentality as the everyday school bully.
Strawman. I never said people deserve to have their feelings hurt. I said that people should not act like it is a god given human right to live their life and never have their feelings hurt. The reason I feel this way is because when people do get this impression they wind up like you. They turn a series of pretty innocuous comments about some pop singers into an egregious assault on their character.

The fact of the matter is that your argument is terrible on various grounds and it is so evident that you are making this into a big deal precisely because you in fact cannot deal with people speaking negatively about your favorite musical artists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
And please don't call me whiny or pathetic.
I'd be happy to not do that but that's exactly how you're acting. You've got your feelings hurt and that is unfortunate, but I can only offer the same advice I have always given you: grow a thicker skin. You'll find people who will say a lot worse to you on the internet than I have, not to mention the fact that you've skewed and blown out of proportion just about every single thing I've said so far in this thread.

It's an unfortunate thing that you're having a hard time liking me. If it makes you feel better, your constant trolling and all the hysterics over pop singers is making it quite difficult for me to like you either. Could it be that my previous supposition that I tend to not have things in common with Britney Spears superfans is actually true? That would almost imply that it was an actual observation that I've made in my lifetime, but you seem to think that it was a crafted insult with the intent to weep uncontrollably and call me a bully (at which it was quite successful).

Between your tirade of logical fallacies and the above short novel of retorts, I do as well hope that the air is sufficiently cleared on this matter.

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